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Centricity Podcast

Mar 29, 2022

Outsourcing and hiring new talent is a natural outgrowth of scaling a business. But how can a small or mid-sized company do this process effectively while retaining a full-funnel? In today’s episode of Aligned, Sean is joined by the founder of Sales Schema, Dan Englander, to hear his thoughts on the issue. 

There is a proper time to hire:

  • With the caveat that his domain space is marketing and advertising, the first order of operations is getting client work off your plate.
  • From there, establish a process for teeing up prospecting opportunities.
  • When accommodating people on your team with defined roles, once a process is in place for getting prospects, invest money in a closer.
  • The skillset required to get a skeptical person to talk to you is numerous: creativity, strategy, systems and operations thinking (and a good amount of hustle and follow-up.) 
  • Dan’s philosophy is that it takes more than one person to make the process work.

Identifying your value:

  • To lower risks in hiring, figure out where your value lies.
  • Oftentimes an agency has never had to figure that out because they rely solely on the strength of referral. So how do you identify value? Through positioning and experience.
  • Companies frequently outsource something for the partnership to end up failing. Why? Because that company is doing the same repeated action done by different companies.
  • While that still works if you’re selling something new, it won’t work forever.

Use the trust and relationships you’ve built to grow.

  • Realize when you hire a salesperson, you are now a part-time sales trainer. You can’t just give collateral and expect them to succeed.
  • Dunbar’s Number is the psychological research that discusses someone’s circle of influence informs our outreach.
  • There’s a difference between asking for an introduction and manipulating people into giving referrals.

Mapping connections and doing it at scale is what leads to success.

  • Clients typically do this anyway, but it’s just done somewhat haphazardly.
  • What if you can figure out the people you already know in specific accounts?
  • All sales and marketing is about change. Social liberation elevates and allows someone unaware of a need for change to consider it.
  • Breakthrough Advertising from the 60s is a hard-to-find book, but it addresses the stages of marketing sophistication. 

For more great content from Dan, visit, check out his podcast (The Digital Agency Growth Podcast), or email him at

FItzMartin’s Sales and Marketing Alignment:

Why does proper sales and marketing alignment result in a 32% average lift in revenue? Because a unified company centered around its prospects can’t help but thrive.

FitzMartin’s Sales and Marketing Alignment program will analyze your current sales and marketing structure to deliver a plan based on the needs of your prospects, bringing you increased revenue, expansion opportunities, and (above all) a unified front when communicating with prospects. 

To set your company up for success, visit to discover how to unify your sales and marketing for the best results. 

FitzMartin’s Innovation and Insights

The FitzMartin approach to research is simple: start with data. We use statistical analysis and data visualization to clarify the haze around customer sentiment, behavior, and lifetime value metrics.  Our most recent study helped a financial institution understand a group of new customers, identify their ideal customers and craft a plan to acquire more ideal customers.

Visit to download a free Sales Barrier Analysis Worksheet to find the gaps and barriers in your organization and read for yourself about the values a partnership with FitzMartin can deliver to you.